Hello, Bird supports with ospf type broadcast. Looks that it actually means hat you execpt from "type mcast". On several networks multicast is broken. Yes it is broken and we cannot do nothing for that because they are metro ethernet and odsl (operator dsl) networks and they are leased from local operators. One solution is make mtmp configuration but if you have 100 router it is nightmare. So I humbly asking new feature. It is real broadcast type. Because of compatibility reasons it is unpossible use type bcast for that and rename multicast for type mcast I suggest that new type is rbcast. It is extension over rfc but it is really usefull one. On real broadcast packets send to 255.255.255.255 so they does not get meshed up with multicast specific rules. I have hear many times "but multicast is broadcast on l2 networks". Pleas dont use that argument. Truck is car, pickup is car but it does not mean that truck is pickup. Some times you have roads where you can drive with pickups but not with trucks. First time when I face this problem I was thiking that "ok this is corner case and solution is ptmp". When we start get these cases on several networks with several operators and several vendors, I start thinking that maybe there is improvement need on ospf. ps How many elese had suffer problems with metro ethernet or dsl network that devices delivery unicast traffic and bcast traffic to ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff but does not delivery traffic to 01:00:5e:00:00:05 -- F-Solutions Oy Tapio Haapala PL 7, 90571 Oulu GSM 040-0998371 Skype burner- IRC Burner@ircnet
On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 01:41:38PM +0200, Tapio Haapala wrote:
Hello,
Bird supports with ospf type broadcast. Looks that it actually means hat you execpt from "type mcast".
Name 'broadcast' for multicast-based interface is from OSPF RFC. So it is probably expected by others.
On several networks multicast is broken. Yes it is broken and we cannot do nothing for that because they are metro ethernet and odsl (operator dsl) networks and they are leased from local operators. One solution is make mtmp configuration but if you have 100 router it is nightmare.
In your case you probably could try NBMA, although needs more configuration than broadcast, it is much simpler (and more similar to broadcast) than PTMP. Advantage is that for a new router, you just have to configure it to a few (2-3) 'designated' routers responsible for distributing signalling information on that network. PTMP is more for a networks where isn't full visibility (i.e. A can speak with B, B with C, but A cannot directly speak with C). Not sure which networks has this property (perhaps some old leased-circuit based networks or ad-hoc wireless networks). BTW, how IPv6 is supposed to work on that broken network? There are no broadcasts in IPv6.
So I humbly asking new feature. It is real broadcast type. Because of compatibility reasons it is unpossible use type bcast for that and rename multicast for type mcast I suggest that new type is rbcast. It is extension over rfc but it is really usefull one. On real broadcast packets send to 255.255.255.255 so they does not get meshed up with multicast specific rules.
Interesting idea, i will probably implement that. -- Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago@crfreenet.org) OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net) "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 11:52:43AM +0100, Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
PTMP is more for a networks where isn't full visibility (i.e. A can speak with B, B with C, but A cannot directly speak with C). Not sure which networks has this property (perhaps some old leased-circuit based networks or ad-hoc wireless networks).
Frame Relay
BTW, how IPv6 is supposed to work on that broken network? There are no broadcasts in IPv6.
Maybe the 33:33: multicast for ipv6 gets through?
So I humbly asking new feature. It is real broadcast type. Because of compatibility reasons it is unpossible use type bcast for that and rename multicast for type mcast I suggest that new type is rbcast. It is extension over rfc but it is really usefull one. On real broadcast packets send to 255.255.255.255 so they does not get meshed up with multicast specific rules.
Interesting idea, i will probably implement that.
in the mean time I guess ebtables are capable of rewritting the mac address? mk
Again we get problems with multicast (all aour routers stop sending igmp last night). So I must ask that what kind possibility is get that real broadcast feature to bird? It solve many problem when you have dozens of routers and links where you cannot guarantee that multicast work properly. On this case naturally right method is reboot all routers and fix that igmp. BUT on first place that multicast is mostly pain in the ass all time when you do not have full control to whole network so I prefer choice that we can get rid off that. -------- Alkuperäinen viesti / Orig.Msg. -------- Aihe: real broadcast mode Päiväys: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 13:41:38 +0200 Lähettäjä: Tapio Haapala <tapio.haapala@f-solutions.fi> Vastaanottaja: bird-users@trubka.network.cz Hello, Bird supports with ospf type broadcast. Looks that it actually means hat you execpt from "type mcast". On several networks multicast is broken. Yes it is broken and we cannot do nothing for that because they are metro ethernet and odsl (operator dsl) networks and they are leased from local operators. One solution is make mtmp configuration but if you have 100 router it is nightmare. So I humbly asking new feature. It is real broadcast type. Because of compatibility reasons it is unpossible use type bcast for that and rename multicast for type mcast I suggest that new type is rbcast. It is extension over rfc but it is really usefull one. On real broadcast packets send to 255.255.255.255 so they does not get meshed up with multicast specific rules. -- F-Solutions Oy Tapio Haapala PL 7, 90571 Oulu GSM 040-0998371 Skype burner- IRC Burner@ircnet
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 05:33:09AM +0300, Tapio Haapala wrote:
Again we get problems with multicast (all aour routers stop sending igmp last night). So I must ask that what kind possibility is get that real broadcast feature to bird? It solve many problem when you have dozens of routers and links where you cannot guarantee that multicast work properly. On this case naturally right method is reboot all routers and fix that igmp. BUT on first place that multicast is mostly pain in the ass all time when you do not have full control to whole network so I prefer choice that we can get rid off that.
So I humbly asking new feature. It is real broadcast type. Because of compatibility reasons it is unpossible use type bcast for that and rename multicast for type mcast I suggest that new type is rbcast. It is extension over rfc but it is really usefull one. On real broadcast packets send to 255.255.255.255 so they does not get meshed up with multicast specific rules.
Implemented in commit 95127cbbb76e8870e029454a5313bc4b6ce69a4a. Option 'real broadcast', relevant for 'type broadcast' and 'type ptp'. Uses directed broadcast addresses instead of 255.255.255.255, but it is the same on ethernet link-layer (ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff). -- Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santiago@crfreenet.org) OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net) "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so."
Thank you This works fine and resolve our problem. 14.5.2012 19:29, Ondrej Zajicek kirjoitti:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 05:33:09AM +0300, Tapio Haapala wrote:
Again we get problems with multicast (all aour routers stop sending igmp last night). So I must ask that what kind possibility is get that real broadcast feature to bird? It solve many problem when you have dozens of routers and links where you cannot guarantee that multicast work properly. On this case naturally right method is reboot all routers and fix that igmp. BUT on first place that multicast is mostly pain in the ass all time when you do not have full control to whole network so I prefer choice that we can get rid off that. So I humbly asking new feature. It is real broadcast type. Because of compatibility reasons it is unpossible use type bcast for that and rename multicast for type mcast I suggest that new type is rbcast. It is extension over rfc but it is really usefull one. On real broadcast packets send to 255.255.255.255 so they does not get meshed up with multicast specific rules. Implemented in commit 95127cbbb76e8870e029454a5313bc4b6ce69a4a. Option 'real broadcast', relevant for 'type broadcast' and 'type ptp'. Uses directed broadcast addresses instead of 255.255.255.255, but it is the same on ethernet link-layer (ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff).
-- F-Solutions Oy Tapio Haapala PL7, 90571 Oulu GSM 0400 998371 Skype burner- IRC Burner@ircnet
participants (3)
-
Martin Kraus -
Ondrej Zajicek -
Tapio Haapala